[Info-vax] Looks like HP has been stepping in the doo-doo again

[Neil Rieck]

On Nov 4, 9:08 am, Neil Rieck <n.ri... at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 6:17 pm, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spam... at vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> > > A union was/is an organization of manufacturing and/or service workers
> > > and is concerned with extorting the maximum pay for the minimum work.
>
> > If you take the VMS example, a VMS union wouldn't have made a difference
> > since HP, with just a handful of exceptions, fired the whole lot, so it
> > wouldn't matter if they went on strike or not.
>
> > Now, if VMS engineers were in the same union as the
> > coloured-alchool-in-expensive-plastic-cartridge workers, then a strike
> > would cripple HP's profits.
>
> > Unions tend to be incompatible with such type of worker because tasks
> > and capabilities are so different, there is no way to set proper salary
> > scales.
>
> > When I worked for a bank, it was almost like a union, with different
> > salary classes a gazillion levels. A particular job had a salary range
> > that you could not exceed. So if the bank wanted to attract a highly
> > qualified person, they couldn't because they could only offer a salary
> > within the approved rates. And once in the bank, the only way to
> > increase your salary was to move from a technical to a managerial job,
> > at which point your technical skills are not longer worth much.
>
> > There were exceptions, notably in the money trading portions where
> > bonuses were de-rigeur to attract and retain highly profitable workers
> > who were paid large sums of money relative to how much profit they
> > generate. But the rest of the bank was pretty much civil service
> > mentality and strick salary limits set to jobs. You could move from the
> > bottom to the top of the salary range for your job, but not exceed it.
>
> JF.
>
> I have been a unionized worker for over 30 years. It is a union
> primarily of "communications technicians" who didn't know what to do
> with computer hardware/software people so the generic phrase
> "technician" was applied to us as well. There are eleven pay steps.
> Thirty years ago everyone started at step #1 unless they had an
> optional (now requisite) college degree which meant you started at
> step 3 or 4. Technicians are given "management-union negotiated"
> objectives that, when met, allow the employee to move up one pay step
> no faster than every 6 months. All jobs have pay-step limits so not
> everyone will make it to step 11.
>
> Now you mentioned the phrase "fired the whole lot" which, in most
> states and provinces, would be illegal because it would represent "a
> breach of contract". They could only break the contract if they also
> filed for bankruptcy protection (which means the union would also be
> at the table). They could break their contract with individual
> employees if they paid a pre-negotiated severance usually based upon
> years of service. (same as what they would do with their own
> management). If they let the contract run its course then notified the
> union that they wouldn't renegotiate a new one, then strike (which
> includes picketing at large customer sites) would begin.
>
> Many people in North American hate unions but I can tell you it has
> been an equalizing force for us. Before the union, there were a small
> number of single-minded hitler-like managers who were allowed to do
> what ever they wanted to employees. After the union formed, these
> trouble-makers were exited by other more reasonable managers.
> Likewise, there were a small number of bad employees which the company
> was able to get rid of after going through a documentation process
> leading to a labor tribunal (ultimately mediated by the provincial
> department-of-labor).
>
> But at the end of the day, upper management negotiates their contracts
> with a lawyer and account present. The same thing happens when the
> company negotiates with the union. Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
>
> Neil Rieck
> Kitchener / Waterloo / Cambridge,
> Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/

p.s. One final point. My employer has indicated that these computer
jobs will eventually be outsourced. It is just that it will happen
through normal attrition rather than a bulk firing. There are other
non-union computer people in our company who have already lost their
jobs (some to India, some to CGI, some to IBM). Therefore, I am
convinced that If I were not a union member, my job would have been
outsourced by now. YMMV.

Neil Rieck
Kitchener / Waterloo / Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/