[Info-vax] VSI software

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Den 2020-08-08 kl. 16:00, skrev Dave Froble:
> On 8/8/2020 6:12 AM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>> In article <rgkdi9$m30$1 at dont-email.me>, Dave Froble
>> <davef at tsoft-inc.com> writes:
>>
>>>>>>>>> However, if VSI wants VMS cluster to be used, they need to shove
>>>>>>>>> it in
>>>>>>>>> front of as many faces as possible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Different strokes for different folks, but my guess is that a very
>>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>>> majority of paying customers (presumably those with most influence on
>>>>>>>> VSI) use clusters.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not allowing users of the CL to
>>>>>>>>> discover the advantages of VMS cluster
>>>>>>>>> (assuming there are advantages)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course there are advantages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Similar remarks reply to Rdb.  I don't know what fraction of VMS users
>>>>>>>> use it, but I guess that a large majority of VMS revenue comes from
>>>>>>>> those who use Rdb.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are making wild ass guesses without mentioning any facts to back
>>>>>>> them up.  Just because you use something does not mean most others
>>>>>>> do also.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not making things up; it is based on experience.  Yes, I've used
>>>>>> both clusters and Rdb, but I am not assuming that most people do just
>>>>>> because of that.  I also didn't say "most people", but rather "most
>>>>>> revenue".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you disagree, do you have any evidence that I am wrong?
>>>>>
>>>>> No more than you do.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would think he have. Philip works within a major VMS/Rdb player
>>>> in Germany, as as such one do get insight through techical update
>>>> days both around VMS and Rdb (VMS owners and Oracle usually have
>>>> points in the agendas of each other). You can see from the attendant
>>>> lists that VMS users and Rdb users to a large degree matches.
>>>> At least amongs those that attends the technical update days.
>>>>
>>>> As you use to say, David, you do not get out much, so I would not
>>>> count what you think in *this* area higher then Philips experiences.
>>>
>>> I agree, I don't have a clue about percentage of VMS sites using Rdb.
>>> But I have a suspicion that neither you nor Phillip ( nor Arne ) have
>>> any better clue.  I'd guess VSI does have a clue, and, they aren't
>>> telling us.
>>>
>>> What I might object to, sort of, is those who do not have any facts, but
>>> due to their own experience, make claims for the entire VMS user base.
>>
>> How many VMS users use DECnet?  :-D
> 
> I don't know, but obviously VSI does have some knowledge of this, and has 
> decided to include it in VMS V9.  Must be a significant number of users.
> 
>>>> Rdb is a major player in the VMS market place. I'm willing to say
>>>> that, without Rdb, the x86 port is mostly pointless. The remianing
>>>> non-Rdb sites is *probably* not enought to support the VSI business.
>>>>
>>>> So it is in your own interest, David, no matter if you use Rdb, that
>>>> Rdb will be available on VMS x86. I'm not concerned, it would surprise
>>>> me a lot if Oracle is not one of the ISV's running VMS on x86 today.
>>>
>>> Rdb is important to VSI, if only because an Rdb user is locked into VMS.
>>
>> Most don't mind.  Actually, at some point Rdb ran on WindowsNT. However,
>> Rdb is very VMS-like, not surprising since it originated at DEC, so it
>> is natural to combine the two.  So, yes, Rdb users are locked to VMS; so
>> are users of AUTHORIZE, SYSMAN, DIRECTORY, and so on.  :-)
> 
> I'm doubting this.

Doubting what? That Rdb ever run on NT? It did.

> Yes, there were plans for Rdb on WEENDOZE, but I don't 
> think it was ever released...

Right, it wasn't released for production use. But after the Rdb/NT
project had been canceled, the kit was released with a "no support"
sticker. The thought was that you could use it on your Windows laptop
for tests or demonstrations.


> Something about BLISS issues on WEENDOZE.

Yes, Oracle could never get a formal support statement from HP
(migth have been Compaq at that time, but the VMS maintainer anyway)
for Bliss/NT.